Did I want to pick a verbal fight, no...no...ok yes. And then someone went and replied on another BLOG about the same topic. Well I had to respond (yes had to). So instead of rewriting the entire response in the form of another post I am mearly going to repost my responce here. It's not cheating. It's my BLOG and I can put what I want in it. ttthhhhppppp. (thats the sound of a resberry if you couldnt tell). So here is the topic guerunteed to garner some lively debate. The trinity. And FIGHT... (ding ding ding)
The question of a succinct Christology is a distinctly Greek concept. There is a level of mystery surrounding who and what Messiah is that should be maintained or we risk dethroning G-d in our own hearts and minds. We are not meant to understand everything. Search out yes, completely understand no.
That being said there is a way of looking at the G-dhead that has always worked for me. At the risk of putting the Most High into a box it is this.
"And God said; Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"
“tselem, dĕmuwth” image and likeness. The most predominant use of the Hebrew word tselem throughout the Tanak is when people make idols or in other words physical representations of the appearance of something here on earth. And that is what G-d did. Not make an Idol, G-d forbid. But he made something in the physical and made it with attributes like himself. We come to understand that man is made of body, soul, and spirit. And no spirit and soul do not mean the same thing. Pneuma and psyche in the Greek, or ruach and nephesh in the Hebrew. In the whole of the Bible there is a line of demarcation between these two concepts, between our being or essence if you will and our thinking or consciousness. There is also a physical component.
That is how The Most High created us in his image, having three essential components. We alone in creation have all three of these components and are therefore the only ones made “in his image”. Now does this mean that G-d is, was, or ever will be a man “just like me”? G-d forbid. What it does mean is that the most high has these three essential components. But wait, the sages teach us that God has no shape or form, and is utterly incomparable. Well in the scriptures we read,
“And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.”
Again when Daniel explains the vision of the Hand of G-d writing on the wall of king Belshazzar,
“and the God in whose hand thy breath [is], and whose [are] all thy ways, hast thou not glorified: Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written.”
This paring of the word “Yad” (hand) indicates that there is a connection between the two actions. G-ds hand was not glorified and so G-ds hand was sent to convey a message.
I’ve chosen these two verses because they cannot be argued to be allegoric or anthropomorphic in nature. They are examples of a physical aspect of G-d interacting with the physical realm in a way that was plainly observed. Now Yeshua is another example of G-d interacting in a physical way with the physical realm in way that could be plainly observed. Was that G-ds hand writing on the wall, of course not. It was The Most High humbling himself, or to put it another way purposefully limiting himself, in order to interact with humanity in way that man could understand (and not kill him with the mere presence of The Most High in his fullness).
To what can the relationship between man and G-d be likened? It is like Star Trek the Next Generation. Data is made by a man. In fact, he can be argued to be mans crowning achievement in that fictitious world. He is made in his makers image (two arms, two legs, etc.) and in his likeness (he looks like him, has some of his charicteristics on a more personal level). And though he has what appears to be a spirit (he is programmed to think) and a soul (he develops the ability to dream), he can never be like his maker. He can never be human. He will always be a shadow of humanity. He will always be a robot. He will never in his entire existence even truly understand what being human really means.
As always I could be completely wrong about all of this.
Be blessed.
I think the real question isn't what people believe about God but WHY they believe it. I am honestly mystified by the many encounters I have had with people claiming they only believe what is in the Bible but they still have a death grip on the Trinity concept you describe. Are there passages that can support this? Sure. Are there biblical contradictions? ABSOLUTLY! I willingly agree to disagree. I only ask for the tiniest bit of openmindedness. For example; why do those who believe in the Trinity get so shocked when I tell them I don't believe in it? If they are so familiar with the Bible, why don't they say "Oh, I can see how you would think that."
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that we are robots or puppets or pet projects. We are children of a loving Father. No amount of lectures or scholarship can change that knowledge because it is not in my head, it is in my heart.
Oh I completely agree with you. We are not robots. I was only using that as an allegory to show a greater "truth". in the same way that Data will never understand basic humanity, we will never fully grasp what G-d is. Yes he is a loving father to us all. At the same time he is so much more. So much in fact that we can hardly grasp the smallest aspect of his true being. His ways after all are not our ways.
ReplyDeleteAs to the trinity. I don't think you can wrap G-d up in a nice neat little package and say,"there he is". I don't think the trinity quite works for a description. Moreover I don't believe modelism (G-d in three forms) gets it quite right either. I think The Most High has revealed three aspects of himself so as to give us a glimpse of who he is to his children.
If we are his children, what will we grow up to be?
ReplyDeleteAdults. However just like I will never be my earthly father (maybee like him with some of his atributes, but I won't BE him). We will not be little gods. Supernatural sure, but G-d is a title with too much authority and power. We already have a story of one being who tried to asscend to the throne an what happened to him. I will even entertain the thought of the same level of pride that befell helel ben shachar.
ReplyDeleteI think "The Loin, the Witch and the Wardrobe" gives an excellent parallel for the difference between Lucifer and the rest of humanity. He tried to take power for his own purposes and power, just as the White Witch. We, as children of God, will inherit that power, just like the children in the story became kings and queens. It also bears noting that Edmund nearly forfitted his inheritance by trying to become a king of Narnia through following the White Witch. She offered him something that was already his but also something she could not give him.
ReplyDeleteI am curious to know what you think we will become, what our existance will be after this life. You seem too insightful to imagine Heaven is for floating on clouds and playing harps for eterinty.
LOL floating and playing harps. Your right I don't think that is what we'll be doing. I think that if we die before the age to come we go into the presence of the most high and learn truth. Unvarnished undiluted truth that brings you to higher and higher realizations of the pureness the holiness of the most high.
ReplyDeleteThen in the age to come I think we rule and reign on the earth along with the high king Messiah. I of course could have it all wrong. I have known to be wrong before. :)
Well, in a nut shell, this is what I believe and know to be true: We are all literally the children of a Heavenly Father. We lived with him as his spirit children before we were born on earth. This life is a time of testing and preparation for our lives as immortal beings. Having a physical body is essential to our eternal progression. Our Father has a perfect, eternal, physical body, as does Jesus Christ. When we die, we go to the sprit world where those who have not had the opportunity to accept the Gospel will be taught. Eventually all will be ressurected (gaining immortality) and judged. Those who are worthy will go on to live with God, to continue learning and growing and having families. Those who are not worthy of this "eternal life" will be given a "lesser inheritance" so to speak, still existing but unable to progress and unable to be in the presence of God.
ReplyDeleteFor Latter-Day Saints (aka Mormons) this knowledge comes from mulitple sources. One of the most important is the Book of Mormon, a record written by inhabitants of the American Continent that documents some of the social and religious expereinces, including a visit from Jesus Christ after he was ressurected. Other sources are modern prophets, men called by God to declare repentance, gather Israel, guide His church and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Christ. And yes, the Bible is also a source and support of these doctrines.
Say Whaaaaaat?
ReplyDelete